Stas
Hi, this is the "Overcoming Barriers" podcast. Here, we share stories of LGBT people interacting with society and with individuals of different identities and genders, and try to figure out how people from different walks of life can find common ground in various circumstances.
My name is Stas. Today, as always, we have an interesting guest and a very important topic on our podcast. Today, we are going to talk with Kai. Hi, Kai.
Kai
Hi. Hello everyone.
Stas
I have some information about you. Kai moved to the Netherlands in 2019 from Krasnodar. Yes, that's correct. He works in the tourism industry. Kai is HIV-positive, and we can talk about that. It is especially valuable to us that he has agreed to speak openly, and among other things about opinions on HIV in Russia and the Netherlands. Please tell us about how you moved to the Netherlands and why you particularly had chosen to come here.
Kai
I moved to the Netherlands at the end of 2019 because it was no longer safe for me to stay in Russia since in Krasnodar I wasn't really hiding my sexuality . I came out for the first time, probably in 2013, when the first homophobic law was enacted in Russia. I went with one-person picket in my small town. I posted a photo of it on the internet. Then it started getting reposted, and since the town is small, people began to recognize me, started writing, calling, and threatening me. After that, I moved to Krasnodar, a larger city, but it was pretty much the same there. I lived there for a few years, and by 2019, I had to leave. I first tried to go to America, but that didn't work out. Then I just accidentally found out that it was easier to get asylum in the Netherlands as a gay person from Russia, so I made that decision. But to be honest, I didn't really know much about the Netherlands, just that it was safe for gays and that you could get asylum there, and that was it.
Stas
I'm not from the biggest city myself, but I didn't have the guts to go out for solo protests.
Kai
It was scary, but I just had this feeling inside that I had to do it, I don't know why. There was just this inner feeling that I needed to do it. So, I went out and did it. But, truth be told, when the threats started pouring in, I got scared and deleted the photo. But it was too late. Everything that gets on the internet stays on the internet.
Stas
My next question is, you are ethnically Armenian. I'm not sure how much you are immersed in those traditions.
Kai
They are completely alien to me, even though my whole family is traditionally Armenian. But I had always felt like an outsider in my family because I was very different from them. They are traditional Armenians, and I am a complete black sheep. So, it's hardly my concern, but I am quite familiar with it.
Stas
A stranger among your own, and your own among strangers.
Kai
Yes, that's why I blocked all my relatives after emigrating, because maintaining such a connection is impossible.
Stas
I have my first question. Please tell us about your name. As far as I understand, this is not your original name; you decided to change it. Why Kai?
Kai
Yes, I want to change my name because, since childhood, I realized that I didn't like at all my real name, Boris.
Stas
Boris?
Kai
Yes, Boris.
Stas
A good Armenian name.
Sure, here is the translation:
Kai
I absolutely loathed it. Since childhood, I would just think, "God, what a disgusting name. Why did they name me that?" It just didn't feel like my name. I spent a long time searching for a name to take. I've been using name Kai for a very long time. When I was about 15-16, I had a friend, and we were going through names together. She just blurted out that the name Kai would suit me. And I liked it.
Stas
Well, even looking at you, I would not say that you look like a Boris.
Kai
People often tell me that, and it makes me happy when they do.
Stas
So that your name suits you so well, and when I found out you werer ethnically Armenian, I thought it would be absolutely ok for you to use a name from a fairy tales.
Kai
Absolutely, yes.
Stas
I thought, great that you took a name from "The Snow Queen."
Kai
I've been asked many times, "Where's your Gerda? Where's your Gerda?" I say, no, it's not related to the fairy tale, I just heard the name and liked it, and thought, why not? I've been using it for a long time, and I plan to change it when I get my passport. Unfortunately, I can't change my name until I get the passport.
Stas
Yes, and as I understand it, you will need to pay a fee and provide justification for the change.
Kai
Yes, yes, but with the first name it seems easier, changing a surname is more complicated.You still need to pay a fee, as far as I know, and justify it. But I hope it will be approved; there are no apparent reasons to deny it.
Stas
Let's talk about homophobia. Now you live openly, without hiding your sexuality. Tell us about your experience with homophobia in Russia.
Kai
Oh, it's been a very long journey because my experience with homophobia in Russia started back in school. And it all began... How did it start? When I was about 15-16, I became interested in the emo subculture. You know, with long bangs, yes. And in my village, I don’t know what I was thinking back then, whether I was too brave or too foolish, because I’m originally from a village with a population of about 2,000 people. So, while I was in school, I walked around the village with long bangs and in pink clothes.
Stas
Listen, you’re 30.
Kai
Yes, I’m 30 now.
Stas
The emo scene shouldn’t have reached you. Was this in kindergarten? Or was it something like that there?
Kai
In 2007, the emo scene started. I was 15 years old then. In 2007.
Stas
We had it earlier.
Kai
Apparently, it started in a bigger city. In our village, it took a while to reach us. Around 2008-2007 was the peak of the emo fashion in our area. So I was walking around, and that’s when the first threats started, the first, well, not attacks, but, let’s say, sometimes I would get beaten up at school. And then the first problems with homophobia began when I entered the technical college and staged a went with a single protest in 2013. And then everything went downhill from there. There were many incidents; I can’t compress them all into one.
Stas
Did you face bullying at school?
Kai
Yes, there was bullying in school. And teachers even called me to the principal’s office because I had pink shoelaces once. They said, "How can your parents tolerate this? It’s a nightmare, you have pink shoelaces. You’re a boy, you can’t wear pink shoelaces." And they also threatened to expel me from school because I had bangs.
Stas
Well, it's basically the same now, maybe even more so in Russia. I'm curious, did you come across any cases where someone in your circle had been a homophobe and later stopped being one?
Kai
Yes, strangely enough. Actually, I had something like that. It was with a friend from elementary school; we had been friends since first grade. When I started coming out, the first time I came out, I don’t remember how old I was, but it was when I was still in school, probably in the ninth or tenth grade. I came out to a friend, accidentally, while drunk. Later, he started suspecting something because we were close, but I hadn’t told him. He started suspecting something, I don’t remember how it all started, but he asked me directly, “Are you gay?” I realized there was no point in lying. I told him that I was gay. Before that, he was very homophobic. He often expressed the view that gays were mentally ill, and such people should be isolated from society. But when I came out, strangely enough, he said that yes, he still hated faggots, if I can use that word But he liked me, he knew I was a good person, and he accepted me. It was a very strange interaction. It was that very one time.
And I had another very strange experience, actually. When I was a student, I always did some thoughtless things. There was a popular social network called “Drug Vokrug” back then. If you know about that app, where you could find people from your city and chat with them. I had a profile there, a gay profile, without my photo but still gay. And I got a message from some homophobic guy who started writing all sorts of homophobic things to me. I started talking to him, and it turned out he lived in the same city as me, he was a bodybuilder, an athlete. And he was dating one of my classmates. Our communication started with him sending me nasty messages and stuff, but then it evolved into a conversation where he wanted to know why I was like that. So, I began talking to him and explaining things. One day, he even suggested we meet. I went to that meeting, not sure why.
Stas
Classic.
Kai
Well, I thought, the guy seemed decent, though intimidating because he was a bodybuilder and homophobic. But you know, we met once, talked, and although he didn’t really understand it, he showed some interest. He was curious to know what it was all about. So, we talked once, and that was it. I didn’t see him anymore.
Stas
Ah, yes, let’s talk about your HIV status. How did you find out about your status? And the next question: Was there anyone in your circle who supported you when they found out? How did you cope overall?
Kai
It was quite a different story because I found out about my HIV status when I was 22 years old, and I found out by accident. In my younger years, I had very few sexual partners, and I thought that HIV and STDs only concerned prostitutes, drug addicts, and those who had a too active sex life, whereas mine was modest and quiet, so I didn’t see the need for testing. Yes, I understand now that it was very foolish not to get tested. Then, when I was in a relationship, at one point I started having health issues and needed surgery. For the surgery, they took all sorts of tests, including for HIV. A few days later, the doctor called and said that we had received all the results, but that for HIV, I needed to go to an HIV center, as it is called in Russia, to find out my results. I thought, well, whatever, it will probably be negative. At that time, my then-boyfriend and I were about to move to Bali, Indonesia. We had already sold all our belongings, quit our jobs, and were flying out in just a couple of weeks. But I didn’t go to the HIV center. The doctor called me again and said the same thing. I told my then-boyfriend about it, and he said it was strange; if they haven’t given you a diagnosis, you need to go and find out because it’s odd. So, I went to the HIV center. Just two days before our departure, I found out that I was HIV-positive. It was, of course, like the ground was pulled out from under me. I couldn’t believe it. I retook the tests several times, but the result was the same, positive. I didn’t know at that time how long I had been ill because my viral load had already started to decrease. So, it wasn’t the first year.
Stas
And how many cells did you have?
Kai
About 600 or so, if I’m not mistaken. Honestly, I’m not very good with numbers, but it was around 600, so it was already on the borderline.
Stas
So, in Russia, according to the protocol, 600 is generally considered a threshold for starting medication.
Kai
Yes, yes, it’s recommended to start taking medication.
Stas
Here, as I understand it, in the West there is a different practice where they don’t wait and you are given medication immediately.
Kai
Yes, that’s correct, they give you medication right away.
Stas
In our case, when doctors delay providing medication, do you have any theories about why this happens? Was it immediate for you?
Kai
And it wasn’t immediate for me either, even though my indicators were quite poor. For a long time, they also didn’t want to give me therapy, and I only managed to get it with great difficulty through another doctor who performed surgery on me. I wouldn’t want to say what kind of surgery. But she said that if they didn’t provide me with therapy, it would be a constant relapse, and I would have to undergo surgery again and again. Only after that, they grudgingly agreed to give me the therapy. Most likely, in Russia, there were constant interruptions in therapy; even back then, I remember there were shortages every now and then. And the quality of therapy in Russia... When I came here, I showed the doctors, and I said, "My God, is this what you’re given?" The therapy was just...
Stas
I’ll tell you more. We’re in a certain context here. When I tell my boyfriend that my cousin died of AIDS, and I also had a childhood friend who died of AIDS, it was really... When I talk about it, they ask, “How? How do you live with this?” I say, “Well, it’s basically normal for us.”
Kai
Yes, yes, it’s normal for us.
Stas
So, what’s the big deal, right?
Kai
Yes, it’s normal for us that people die of AIDS. There are also many dissidents. When I found out about my diagnosis, I went online and came across a lot of groups and forums of dissidents. And when you find out something like that, the first stage is denial. I started to think maybe there really isn’t any HIV? Maybe we’re being lied to?
Stas
So you had hope?
Kai
I had hope, yes, but fortunately, I timely accepted the fact that HIV really exists. I was so in denial that we still went to Indonesia, but not to live there, just for vacation. I even retested twice there, and it was positive there too. If two different countries have positive results, then it’s definitely HIV.
Stas
What was your medical support like at your HIV center in Krasnodar?
Kai
In Krasnodar it was very poor. I was on a program with 5 pills a day. Two pills in the morning, two pills in the evening. It was Lamivudine, Tenofovir, and something else. And before bed, Efavirenz. That Efavirenz, which you take before bed, was such a toxic medication that I still have short-term memory issues because of it. I took it for 5 years. It was quite harsh. I wouldn’t recommend it.
Stas
A lot of side effects, right?
Kai
A lot of side effects. Yes, I had many side effects. They always advised me to take it right before bed. Take it and go straight to sleep. Because if I didn’t fall asleep, I would start feeling a kind of heat in my chest. If I drank water, there would be coordination problems, I couldn’t really stand on my feet, I would fall.
Stas
Like being drunk.
Kai
Yes, like being drunk. There were some mild hallucinations, and problems with short-term memory too. It was like a drug. Yes, it was some kind of toxic drug.
Stas
So, how often did you have appointments with your therapist in Russia?
Kai
Once every six months, just like here. And I received therapy for three months only. So, I had to come and get therapy every three months. The appointment itself was once every six months.
Stas
And how long did your appointment last?
Kai
It didn’t last long, about 10-15 minutes. I would just go in, she would ask if everything was okay, if everything was normal. I would say yes, and she would say, "Okay, go take your tests," and that was it, goodbye.
Stas
I see. How long does your appointment with your therapist last here?
Kai
Here, the appointment lasts about an hour. They ask more detailed questions, they check your blood pressure, and if there are any questions, they answer them openly. Back in Russia, it wasn’t very open.
Stas
It was more of a conveyor-belt type of approach.
Kai
Yes, more like a conveyor belt. When I first went in, right after I was informed about my status, the first thing they asked me was, “Who did you get it from, a man or a woman?” And in that kind of setting, I kept saying, “I’m not gay, I’m not gay.” But they kept pushing, “Well, you must have gotten it from a man. Admit it, it’s obvious you got it from a man.” I said no. Then the doctor said, “Maybe you just forgot, because I had a case where a guy came to us, and he was raped at a party. Maybe you were raped too, and you forgot?” I said no, that didn’t happen. She said, “Well, okay.” And they kept prying into who I got it from; it didn’t matter whether it was a man or a woman. I didn’t say, because I didn’t really want to open up to them. Moreover, they also asked for the contacts of everyone I had sex with, to warn them. I said I wouldn’t provide contacts; it’s...
Stas
A traumatic experience.
Kai
Yes, yes.
Stas
Listen, please tell me, have you encountered any incorrect treatment regarding your HIV status here in the Netherlands?
Kai
No, never. In fact, I don’t hide it at all here. Not that I walk around with a banner, but whenever I seek any medical help, even at the dentist, if they ask about my medication, I tell them that I have HIV and I’m taking some medication. Wherever I go, if it’s necessary, I openly say that I have HIV, and I’ve never faced any issues, not at all, zero.
Stas
We’ve covered a lot today, and it’s been really valuable and insightful information. Thank you for being open about your HIV status. I think it’s really important for people... Go ahead.
Kai
Yes, it’s very important because, in Russia, for instance, well, I’m talking about the time I was there, but I don’t think things have changed much, honestly. I remember that even on Hornet, for example, most guys didn’t list their HIV status; everyone claimed to be negative, even though there was an epidemic in the country. And those who did list it always had a red ribbon icon because of the heavy stigma. If someone said they had HIV, I even saw instances where people posted profiles of other guys, attaching photos and saying, “He has HIV, don’t meet him.” This only causes people to isolate themselves, but the infection continues, and they still engage in sexual activity.
Stas
It should be noted that if you’re HIV-positive, whether in Russia or the Netherlands, you’re likely more informed about your health.
Kai
Yes, that's true. Moreover, you see the doctor at least once every six months, and you pay more attention to your health. Generally, someone who is on therapy eventually achieves an undetectable viral load. For instance, I have an undetectable viral load now, which means I cannot transmit the virus to anyone at all.
Stas
I have two questions. What would you say to someone who has just been told about their HIV status yesterday or today? What words of support can you offer to that person?
Kai
It's very difficult for me to support others, but the only thing I can say is that the world doesn't end there. Even if someone finds out about their HIV status in Russia, they still need to seek medical help and start therapy. HIV, if managed properly, doesn’t affect your life in a negative way. I don’t notice it at all. I just take my medication, and that’s it. It hasn’t made my life any worse or better. It has happened, and the only thing you can do is accept it and not be afraid. As for openness, that’s a personal decision for each individual.
Stas
Please tell me about your therapy. As I understand, your current therapy is different from the one you had in Russia.
Kai
Yes, that's right. Since I came here, I've been on therapy. I take Biktarvy, which is one pill before bed. It has absolutely no side effects; well, there was a side effect when I first switched to it, as I had headaches during the transition, but that lasted about two weeks, and then it was fine.
Stas
So, it's not a generic?
Kai
No, no, it's not a generic. It's a high-quality medication that I get through insurance. Here, we have health insurance, and there's an excess that costs 385 euros a year, which is like a deductible. The therapy falls under this excess, so I pay 380 euros a year for it, but I break it down and pay 38 euros a month. Considering how much this therapy actually costs, it's not a lot of money.
Stas
How much does it actually cost?
Kai
As far as I know, one pack costs around 2000 euros, but I only pay 38 euros a month.
Stas
If you contract other things, like hepatitis C or D, does the insurance cover those as well?
Kai
Yes, the insurance covers all STIs and other health issues. So, even if I go for my check-ups every three months as required and something is found, it will be covered by the insurance.
Stas
Great. And the last question I want to ask you is: What can friends, acquaintances, or relatives of people living with HIV do to support them?
Kai
The main thing they can do is to make the person feel that their HIV status doesn’t scare them at all. Because HIV is not transmitted through casual contact. There are misconceptions, and I don’t know if they still exist, that if someone with HIV gets a cut, their blood can infect someone else. That’s not true; HIV is only transmitted through direct blood-to-blood contact, if you both have open, deep wounds and you come into contact with each other’s blood. It doesn’t transmit through saliva either. When I first learned about my HIV status, there were people who said, "Oh, I ate from the same dish as you," and they were afraid they might catch it. I want to tell those people not to be afraid; you won’t contract it unless you engage in sexual activity with that person. Make it clear that their HIV status does not affect your relationship with them. Essentially, it shouldn’t even be noticed. Whether they have HIV or not doesn’t matter.
Stas
On this note, we’ll wrap up. Thank you very much for coming.
Kai
Thank you very much for the invitation and for the very interesting questions.
DISCLAIMER
The podcast is the intellectual property of LGBT World Beside. All rights reserved. The views and opinions expressed in the episodes presented on the website are solely those of the guests. This podcast is supported by the European Cultural Foundation and the European Union.
Comments