In this episode of the podcast, we are going to share an inspiring story of Olya, a transwoman from Voronezh who has discovered a new life in the Netherlands. Olya is going to recount her childhood memories and moments of self-realization, as well as the challenges she had faced in Russia because of the transphobic laws and pressure from her relatives.
We are going to discuss her first steps in the Netherlands, her adaptation to a new country, and the difficulties linked to the local healthcare system. Olya will talk about her experiences with local healthcare providers, issues with hormone treatments, and how she is coping with challenges, while searching for support within the local community.
Olya will share with us her message to the trans community, explain why participating in this podcast means a lot to her, and what are the actual hopes she would like to pass on to others.
At the end of the episode, we are going to learn about Olya’s dreams for the future, her plans to stay in the Netherlands and find a job that would bring her satisfaction. Olya will discuss the steps she is undertaking towards achieving her goals and the vision for her future in this new for her country.
Join us to hear Olya’s story, full of challenges, resilience, and hope.
Context: In Russia, a set of provisions for the administrative and criminal prosecution of LGBTQ+ individuals and organizations, which state authorities can apply at their discretion, has been established. Law enforcement agencies explicitly refer to the Russian Federation Supreme Court decision of November 30, 2023, which has classified activities by LGBTQ+support organizations as extremist, in order to justify the conduction of unscheduled inspections (raids) and arrests. Following the enactment of the Supreme Court decision, it has turned out clear that LGBTQ+ individuals cannot seek judicial protection, except in rare cases where law enforcement agencies make obvious mistakes when drafting detention reports.
In 2023, transgender individuals became the most vulnerable group following the peak of discrimination based on gender identity in Russia. Psychological pressure and transphobia persist to such extent that those vulnerable groups may find themselves unable to cope with aggravated traumatic experiences, potentially resorting to the most desperate measures in their lives.
On January 31, 2024, the Government of the Russian Federation officially suspended the plan to implement ICD-11 (International Classification of Diseases, 11th Revision), claiming that parts of the disease classification allegedly contradict traditional moral and spiritual values in Russia. Specifically, earlier amendments were made to ban the provision of medical assistance for gender affirmative therapy within Russia, including surgical interventions and hormonal substitution therapy. Additionally, on July 1, 2023, a decree from the Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation came into force, which now requires sexologists in state psychiatric hospitals and psychoneurological clinics to provide "primary specialized medical care to individuals suffering from mental disorders related to sexual development and orientation, sexual identity disorders, and sexual preferences." This is clearly aimed at restricting access to medical care for LGBTQ+ individuals in Russia.
Transcript of the Episode:
Adam (Interviewer): Hello everyone. Hi, Olya. Today we have the first episode of our podcast. Our guest today is Olya.
Olya (Guest): Hi, Adam.
Adam: It's very nice to meet you. We have never met before. I'm very interested in hearing your story. Tell us a little about your childhood.
Olya: Actually, I grew up in a small town. I recently found out to my horror that it used to have a population of 90,000, but then it ended up being only 30,000 people. The town’s name is Gubkin in the Belgorod region. It's a mining town, eternally stuck in the '90s. Troubled schools, but I actually had a relatively happy childhood, except for the extensive bullying in schools. Here's some good news from a few months ago. My classmates, who hadn't seen me in 10 years and who brutally bullied me in school, contacted me. I found out that they all work in the mines. They were very cruel, sorry.
Adam: I also used to live in a small town with a population of 50,000. I don't know how many people are living there now, but I am very happy with where I am now. And where we are now together.
Adam: When did you realize that you didn't fit into the framework of Russian society?
Olya: I fit in quite well until my society found out about it. Actually, I started my transition quite late, at 24 years old. Before that, being gay in Russia was actually pretty cool; it's this perpetual party atmosphere. You probably know what I mean. You always have a bunch of friends, you can always visit them. They are always in some tense relationships with each other. It's like a small Game of Thrones, but with your friends.
Olya: The problems started probably when I began my transition. And even then, not right away, only when they started pushing homophobia and transphobia very actively on television, and that started affecting people.
Adam: And when did you feel this intensification the most?
Olya: Actually, it intensified more when relations with all Western countries finally broke down, at the start of the war in Ukraine. Before that, it was quieter, though I also faced issues at my university. I had problems because of it, but before that, it was just the initiatives of idiots, and then it became some kind of mass hysteria like "dog distemper."
Adam: Being gay in Russia is one thing, but being a trans person is a completely different experience, related to gender dysphoria.
Olya: Yes, yes, dysphoria.
Adam: Because I'm not very familiar with these issues either. And you are probably the first transgender person I know, right?
Olya: Yes, probably right. I'm not very familiar with the terminology. This is just my life.
Adam: Do you remember the moment when you started feeling uncomfortable in your own body?
Olya: The first time it happened when I was about six years old, when I was vividly explained the difference between boys and girls. After that, I took scissors and went to the bathroom to fix it. Fortunately, nothing happened. Yes, I had an attempt at severe self-harm because it was explained to me in a rather harsh way what the difference between boys and girls was. Well, nothing came of it, fortunately. Then it somehow subsided; it was just hard to fit into society because, for example, I didn't like that boys were rough. It absolutely didn’t appeal to me. Among them, teasing was normal, but I felt like crying. And my interests were always a bit different. I had one friend, in high school. In high school, the girls would spit at me.
Olya: It’s a rather complex explanation. The moment you start your transition, you only then realize how much it had weighed on you before because it's your innate experience. You know, it's probably like people without an arm. It’s hard to explain to the others that having two arms is a bit different; they don't feel deprived because they have grown up that way. You grow up not feeling the pressure, but then when you start the transition, it suddenly releases and then hits hard. It hits you with full force because it turns out, for example, that you're not afraid of people. You're afraid that people see you as a man. You’re not afraid of public speaking; you're afraid of being misgendered. It’s a subconscious fear that you can't control. It's just stress.
Adam: Let’s talk more about your reasons for moving. When and why did you decide to move to the Netherlands?
Olya: I decided that I had to leave the moment I found out that it was actually possible because it was clear to me that my already quite homophobic family would not accept my transition. They knew about it but preferred to pretend it wasn't serious. And when they started banning gender marker changes in passports in Russia, I knew I had to go.
Adam: Did that (the passing of the transphobic law - editor's note) happen recently?
Olya: Yes, it happened last summer.
Comments: The Russian Parliament of the current convocation unanimously has approved and the president has signed two legislative initiatives aimed at the complete ban on gender transition (Federal law No.386- FZ “On Amendments to Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation” dated 24.07.2023, hereinafter referred to as “The Law banning gender transition”). The Law banning gender transition completely abolishes inter alia: 1) the delivery of health care during the gender transition on the territory of Russia including medical surgeries and hormone therapy, 2) the adjustment of the documents after the gender marker change if a gender affirmative surgery was performed abroad, 3) the Registry offices to make changes in documents in case of the gender marker change, 4) adoption of a child by people who have done gender transition. In case one of partners changes the gender marker, such marriages are automatically recognized as invalid. These restrictions are of an unprecedented discriminatory nature and affect transgender and intersex people.
Olya: It became urgent. I had to change (my documents) quickly; before that, I had planned to do it gradually in winter, but I had to hurry. This caused a serious conflict with my relatives, for whom it was very significant. They viewed it as: "Goodness, don’t you understand that some high-profile person will come to the hotel, and they’ll check everyone, find out that you are one of the relatives, and it will ruin our business." To them (my relatives) : the fact that I had changed my passport to female was something indecent and shameful. Strange, but true.
Adam: And you managed to change (the documents)?
Olya: Yes. Yes. And quite quickly. I sold my laptop, and my friend and I went to Moscow to some acquaintances, whom we saw for the first time. They sheltered us. I stayed there for about five days, paid 200 euros (20 thousand rubles as a commission). Since I already had all the necessary certificates, it happened very quickly. And, essentially, they just confirmed that yes, everything is in order, two years already. That’s all.
Adam: And regarding the move to the Netherlands? At what point did you decide that this is it? This is the end. Or that it’s time to move.
Olya: July. I had just received my new documents, it was my birthday, I applied for a passport, and my partner Sergey and I, he lives here too, we decided to leave Russia because it was scary. To be frank, it was scary. At that moment, I didn’t have much money; we were saving everything for the moving. I needed to get a tooth treated. The tooth was damaged by biting something hard. I went to a dental clinic, presented my insurance policy, my documents. There was an elderly woman there; everything seemed fine. Then she started entering the policy number. The system found that I wasn’t a girl before. Her face changed, and she started shouting across the corridor. She called for the head doctor, and a crowd of people rushed in.
So, on the one hand, there was a crowd of doctors explaining that this was illegal, that such a thing was impossible in Russia, that these were forged documents, that it was all a lie. On the other hand, I was in shock. Around me were elderly people who came to the social dentistry. It was extremely confrontational. I tried calling the Medical Insurance Fund to convince them that yes, these were valid documents. Just update them and treat my tooth; I’m not here to change my gender, come on.
Olya: At that moment, it became clear that living in this country any longer would be impossible. It wasn’t because she found out I was a transgender woman, but because for two months, their minds had been conditioned by this law banning gender marker changes. It affected her so much that she decided to shout at the entire queue.
Adam: What other difficulties did you face in Russia?
Olya: You start getting denied medical services. Employers begin to look at you very suspiciously, especially if your documents aren’t updated. When they are updated, you can hide it, but when they aren’t and if it’s not safe, they don’t understand that it’s legal, that the law doesn’t apply retroactively. They think it’s illegal and are afraid to hire you. You have problems with people around you because they’ve watched too much TV, especially if they find out you have a new passport now. This all stems from these laws. People lose their minds because they hear so much negative information.
Olya: So, there were many problems indeed. I had issues at work that arose when security services leaked my data, found through banks. Banks have all of your old data. I had problems with my relatives because they had decided this would destroy their business and started harassing me through the bank. That new data...
Adam: Did this all start after the law had been passed?
Olya: Yes. So before that, they were much more indifferent, but then they decided it would be something actionable and would tarnish their reputation. You just become a pariah if they find out because people are afraid of you. People are afraid that it’s something illegal.
Adam: About your relatives: did anything change after the law was passed?
Olya: Before that, regarding my transgender transition, they preferred to ignore it. You know, there was such a policy in America in the Navy: "Don’t ask, don’t tell" regarding gays. It was exactly the same. After this, when they found out about this law, despite everything, my documents were changed, and hell broke loose. They came to me, they threatened me, threatened that they would bring a case against me for fraud, that they would find a way to put me in jail, we’ll pay money, and you won’t even need money, we have connections. In short, you’ll serve a long prison term Why? Because you’re ruining everything for us just by existing.
Adam: Do you have new documents now?
Olya: Yes, and you can’t really say I’m a particularly "marginal" representative of transgender people, because, damn it, I worked in a bank. At that time, I issued loans. I’m not even from that group of people who can’t integrate into society, who are engaged in sex work or something else. Most transgender people either work as couriers or in sex work because it’s difficult to integrate into society. I was doing fine, I worked in a bank, everything was great. Still, "you’re shaming our family," still "you’re destroying our reputation," still "this shouldn’t be happening." At first, they were like, let’s take you to a clinic, they’ll cure you, because there was talk about it, let’s pay, they’ll diagnose schizophrenia, and through court, they’ll change the documents back, because the talk was that you’d disappear, disappear involuntarily.
Adam: And it was coming from your relatives?
Olya: Yes. (inaudible text - ed.)
Adam: Wow... It’s scary to imagine how you went through all of this. Just so you understand, Olya is sitting in front of me right now, and I have absolutely no doubt that she’s a girl. If I didn’t know about this, I wouldn’t even have thought about it.
Olya: Yes.
Adam: Just a regular bank employee.
Adam: Why is this so important? Do people immediately change their attitude after finding out?
Olya: Everything changes when people are told every day on TV that you want to kill and eat their children.
Adam: Let's now talk about the positive side, about life in the Netherlands.
Adam: Tell me, how is your adaptation going here now?
Olya: My adaptation here isn't going well at all. The language school doesn't take you in if you don't have a tax number. So, my adaptation here involves walking around the city, vocal coaching to keep from getting bored, strolling through the city with friends, interacting with locals, and just basic networking because, in reality, until you're granted refugee status, nobody really pays much attention to you.
Adam: What was difficult for you during the first month?
Olya: Well, actually, Ter-Apel is the primary accommodation camp for a month. Because there you need to go take your food, you get halal food - it’s terrible. And while you’re standing there, there’s some "wonderful person" showing you phallic symbols, suggesting you go have oral sex with them in an uncomfortable way.
Olya: Plus I had a friend, a 16-year-old transgender girl from Ryazan, sent there by her parents because she was being chased by the cops. I mean, they figured out she’d be safer in a refugee camp than in Russia. 16 years old, hormones driving her crazy. She got involved with refugees from Africa, Arab countries, and first they stalked her, they gave her weed to smoke, they wanted her to pay for it with sex, and then she was raped by some older man. Since she was afraid to tell, I said, "No," we will go to the officials. The officers were outside the police station, then we went to the hospital. In that hospital I stayed with her until 6 in the morning.
Adam: You talk a lot about Ter-Apel. What is it?
Olya: Ter-Apel is a primary accommodation and filtration camp for refugees. I mean, they send you to Ter-Apel first if you have a Schengen visa. Or if you have walked in on foot, like many refugees from other countries do. Russians do not get there most of the time, and people stay in there for a long time. It’s hard there, in some ways. Because there’s food, there’s a concentration of refugees plotting against you, there’s often violence. My friend, Anton, he’s been there for six months. Transferred out and transferred back again. He is very unlucky. No one transgender that I know has ever spent more than a month in there, so they’re trying to get us out of that place into somewhere safer.
Adam: And now you?
Olya: I’ve been in Amsterdam for six months. Nice place. Well, the only downside is that kids are noisy here, we live in a dorm with Kurdish teenagers and over them their big brothers. They are very well-mannered, but culturally noisy. Every emotion they express as a loud cry. The only drawback, in fact, those kids are wonderful and funny. They also have to make them clean in case they forget. And so - these are the obvious little things. Well, I mean, actually, this is not the worst hostel I had to live in. So, yeah, you could say it’s mostly good.
Adam: What’s your experience here with the healthcare system?
Olya: Look, I’m a nice person, but you have to understand that I’m a determined person and I have to push for what I need.
Adam: What did you have to push for?
Olya: For example, an appointment with a psychiatrist. It might require from one to have a little argument. For example, you can get prescribed with some hormonal drugs that you want, and sometimes you will have to argue for that. What I want is this medication scheme, not that one. Many doctors insist on saying the hormonal drugs you are asking for are not available. I had to argue for 30 minutes, but they gave me the ones I wanted.
Adam: Do you feel any support from the local population?
Olya: The locals are very friendly, they try to speak English and Russian, if they know it, to me. Especially in Amsterdam, everyone tries to speak English to you. Every time I've met people, there's been zero condemnation, complete understanding. I haven't encountered any phobia towards refugees at all, not even from older people who you'd think might be more conservative. "Oh, you're from Russia? Oh, you're a refugee. Oh, that's too bad. I really sympathize with you." "And who are you?" "Well, I used to work in a bank, a bit as a broker." "Oh, how great that you've come here." "Well, unfortunately, it's tough here now, but I hope it gets better." Something like that. Overall, I find the place very supportive.
Olya: I was in the taxi coming from the hospital after that girl was raped. The police called the taxi because they left the girl at the hospital. She didn't want to let me go. You understand, right? I was talking to the taxi driver, and he had voted for the local anti-immigrant party. And we agreed, like, "You're cool. I won't vote for them anymore."
Adam: Anti...?
Olya: Anti-immigrant, anti-refugee. I mean, he said, "You're cool, I didn't expect it to be like this."
Adam: So he wanted...?
Olya: Well, he had voted for them, it's a funny story.
Adam: What significant differences in social environment have you noticed based on your experience in Europe and Russia among members of the LGBT community?
Olya: Russian LGBT are very Islamophobic. I'm afraid because of my family, who have embraced these ideas and started hating me. Still, I communicate with them (Russian-speaking LGBT - ed.), I don't know, among them there's a lot of racism and Islamophobia. It's because of constant fear, because in Russia, these categories of citizens are usually persecuted. People become filled with this hatred because of it. There aren't right-wing LGBT people like this anywhere else. So, the majority of LGBT people in Russia are very right-wing in their views. Here, they're very left-wing (Russian-speaking LGBT - ed.): we'll treat everyone well until you prove yourself to be an asshole.
Adam: Have you received support not only from the LGBT community here?
Olya: Yes. In general, people here aren't tainted by hate propaganda, at least not yet. Fortunately. I hope it doesn't change. Muslims are quite friendly, by the way. Unlike in Russia. They are wonderful people, helping to understand things.
Adam: I've noticed that too. They don't come here for an easy life either.
Olya: That's right.
Adam: And they've found a certain freedom here.
Olya: Very, very nice and very pleasant.
Adam: I also had certain stereotypes.
Olya: I had stereotypes too. I had fear directly caused by my family. And it gradually diminishes, fortunately.
Adam: What advice would you give to people in similar situations? Maybe they are thinking about moving to a safe country.
Olya: I've sworn off giving advice to people who want to move to a safe country in similar situations. People in such situations are demoralized by their own lives. "No, just no," they say. "I see on TV that you have huge queues there, I will have to live in a camps with very negative people." "We see examples of suicides, widely publicized." My friend Khina unfortunately killed herself here. And so on, and so forth. No one says that you will be given any context. People are scared. Rather, you will face aggression if you try to suggest that your situation is much worse than mine. You probably need to save your life before it's too late, before you are locked up.
Olya: I was trying to call Artem. What do you think? He's in pretrial detention now, not answering anything.
Adam: Artem? Did we talk about him?
Olya: Yes, we talked about Artem Fokin, who founded the organization "Irida" with four people there - LGBT, to sue the unauthorized discriminatory legislation of Russia. Moreover, not only in relation to LGBT, but also against foreign agents and public organizations. He was a bit of a rainmaker, a simple person who believes in law and justice. He tried to get his legal action through to the very end. Now he's in pre-trial detention. As I understand it, someone had reported on him. In the comments, someone boasted, "It's me, I have reported on him, now he'll go down for extremism."
Adam: There are people like that.
Olya: Well, I deliberately ignore him. Because, well, what's the point of feeding "a sick person"? They need treatment, but Russia builds its foreign policy around such people.
Adam: In general, about advice, as I understand it...
Olya: The advice - don't tell anyone anything at all, because you'll only encounter hatred. If someone wants help, you can tell them your story.
Adam: And what hope, support can you offer to those who are listening? Until now.
Olya: I think no one has listened to me this far, but if someone has survived... Guys, in short, propaganda lies. It's cool here. If you want, try it. Like when society doesn't tell you every day that you're "Spawn of Satan," life is much more comfortable.
Adam: I've heard your story now, and in the background, I keep thinking how good it is that we're not there.
Olya: Unfortunately, yes, that thought still haunts me. It's a somewhat indicative thought regarding the situation there.
Adam: Why is it important for you to stay in the Netherlands?
Olya: Because if I return to Russia, either they'll lock me up for extremism because I donated to Artem's organization, or they'll put me in a psychiatric hospital, or they'll force me into treatment, or they'll just kill me. Well, in general, I want to live.
Adam: In general, the motivation is clear.
Olya: I want to live and live freely.
Adam: Okay, then. So, our last note was a positive one? Do you agree?
Adam: Great, then, Olya, I wish you all the best. Sincerely. I'm glad we met. And thank you for participating.
Olya: Thank you, you're cool.
Disclaimer: "The podcast is the intellectual property of LGBT World Beside. All rights reserved. The views and opinions expressed in the episodes presented in the podcast and on the website belong exclusively to the guests. This podcast is supported by the European Cultural Foundation and the European Union."
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